Taraji P. Henson and Sam Rockwell were tremendous in this film. Sammy has always been a true actor and steals the scenes.
142 Reviews
Any film with Sam Rockwell is good with me
jokeritt21 June 2019
Worth your time
jaynekranc15 April 2019
I actually had friends puzzled that I wanted to see this, because they told me it was a movie just for black people. It's worth seeing just to understand exactly how dumb that kind of comment is. The performances are outstanding. I love "based on true events" films anyway, and understand their limitations, so maybe I"m biased, but I think this is an important film..The sets captured that small town feel in the past south perfectly. Is it heavy handed at times? Sure, but it really shows how both characters changed their minds. I"m sorry it's not doing better. I missed seeing it last weekend and this weekend there were only two showings of it at my theater and expect it to be gone next week.
Fabulous acting
Calicodreamin16 July 2021
A moving and true story brilliantly brought to light by Rockwell and Henson. The characters are well cast and well acted, the leads have great chemistry, and the story is moving. It hits some deep topics in an easy to handle way and ends on a hopeful note, which I appreciate. Love seeing the real people at the end.
I'm deeply moved
Gordon-1120 August 2019
This film tells the story of two opposing parties in the racially segregated society decades ago.
The story is captivating and beautifully told. It tells a process of increasing mutual understanding, thereby reaching a groundbreaking consensus. It is a thought provoking and truly inspiring tale. I am deeply moved by it.
The story is captivating and beautifully told. It tells a process of increasing mutual understanding, thereby reaching a groundbreaking consensus. It is a thought provoking and truly inspiring tale. I am deeply moved by it.
a feel good look at a moment in history
ferguson-65 April 2019
Greetings again from the darkness. It's easy to complain (and many do) about how Hollywood usually explores racism. Sometimes the stories seem a bit over-simplistic, as with THE HELP, GREEN BOOK, and HIDDEN FIGURES; however, rather than criticize, perhaps we should be thankful for any effort to prod. Often getting the conversation started is the best first step. That's really the message from Robin Bissell's directorial debut of a script he adapted from Osha Gray Davidson's 1996 book "The Best of Enemies: Race and Redemption in the New South". Mr. Bissell has previously been Executive Producer on THE HUNGER GAMES and SEABISCUIT, and Mr. Davidson's book was previously adapted for a stage production.
Based on a true story that took place in 1971 Durham, North Carolina, the film portrays the remarkable events that led to the integration of public schools and a stranger-than-fiction friendship. Taraji P Henson stars as Ann Atwater, an African-American activist and community organizer, while Sam Rockwell co-stars as Claiborne "CP" Ellis, the Exalted Cyclops (basically the Chapter President) of the Ku Klux Klan. It seems the previous stranger-than-fiction description is aptly applied here when an aggressive black woman known as "Roughhouse Annie" can effectively sway the long ingrained beliefs of a KKK leader, and forge a friendship that would last 3 decades.
A school fire that partially gutted the elementary school attended by the black children in the community was the proverbial spark that kicked off the chain of events. When the white folks refused to share their school, the black children were forced to hold classes in the areas least affected by the fire ... while demolition and renovation was being carried out. This led to the NAACP getting involved, which resulted in a judge ordering a "Charrette" - a blend of a committee and a civic debate - to determine how the community would move forward. Bill Riddick (Babou Ceesay, FREE FIRE, 2016) was charged with organizing the Charrette, and he named Ms. Alexander and Mr. Ellis as co-chairs. Keep in mind this was 17 years after Brown vs. Board of Education ruled in favor of school desegregation, but many pockets of the south were slow to come around.
The story structure offers synchronicity between the lives of Alexander and Ellis, as they each struggle with poverty and family challenges. It's just one of the ways of trying to show they were more alike than different, and much more of the time is devoted to how the transition slowly occurs for Ellis. Of course, even though each side dislikes the other, it's Ellis whose eyes must be opened as he clings to the only way of life he's known. Because of this, Mr. Rockwell has the meatier role, but it's Ms. Henson (and her fat suit) who draws the most laughs and nods of approval from the audience.
As you would expect, it's a strutting Mr. Rockwell and boisterous Ms. Henson that dominate the film, however, some tremendous actors fill the supporting roles: Wes Bentley (as a Confederate soldier hat-wearing Klansman), Anne Heche (as Ellis' wife), Nick Searcy, Bruce McGill, John Gallagher Jr, and Caitlin Mehner.
The film is a most entertaining (though a bit lightweight) look at an historic chain of events, and it's right up there with a black cop infiltrating the Klan in Spike Lee's 2018 film BLACKkKlansman for believe-it-or-not points. In 1980, Studs Terkel conducted an interview with Mr. Ellis, and it's worth a read to gain a bit more insight into a man that truly changed his evil ways. The ending of this film leans heavily on the "feel-good" and "can't we all just get along" approach, and maybe that's not such a bad thing. The end credit sequence features some tremendous clips of the real Ms. Alexander (who died in 2016) and Mr. Ellis (who died in 2005), making it a bit easier to understand how the two opposites connected for the greater good.
Based on a true story that took place in 1971 Durham, North Carolina, the film portrays the remarkable events that led to the integration of public schools and a stranger-than-fiction friendship. Taraji P Henson stars as Ann Atwater, an African-American activist and community organizer, while Sam Rockwell co-stars as Claiborne "CP" Ellis, the Exalted Cyclops (basically the Chapter President) of the Ku Klux Klan. It seems the previous stranger-than-fiction description is aptly applied here when an aggressive black woman known as "Roughhouse Annie" can effectively sway the long ingrained beliefs of a KKK leader, and forge a friendship that would last 3 decades.
A school fire that partially gutted the elementary school attended by the black children in the community was the proverbial spark that kicked off the chain of events. When the white folks refused to share their school, the black children were forced to hold classes in the areas least affected by the fire ... while demolition and renovation was being carried out. This led to the NAACP getting involved, which resulted in a judge ordering a "Charrette" - a blend of a committee and a civic debate - to determine how the community would move forward. Bill Riddick (Babou Ceesay, FREE FIRE, 2016) was charged with organizing the Charrette, and he named Ms. Alexander and Mr. Ellis as co-chairs. Keep in mind this was 17 years after Brown vs. Board of Education ruled in favor of school desegregation, but many pockets of the south were slow to come around.
The story structure offers synchronicity between the lives of Alexander and Ellis, as they each struggle with poverty and family challenges. It's just one of the ways of trying to show they were more alike than different, and much more of the time is devoted to how the transition slowly occurs for Ellis. Of course, even though each side dislikes the other, it's Ellis whose eyes must be opened as he clings to the only way of life he's known. Because of this, Mr. Rockwell has the meatier role, but it's Ms. Henson (and her fat suit) who draws the most laughs and nods of approval from the audience.
As you would expect, it's a strutting Mr. Rockwell and boisterous Ms. Henson that dominate the film, however, some tremendous actors fill the supporting roles: Wes Bentley (as a Confederate soldier hat-wearing Klansman), Anne Heche (as Ellis' wife), Nick Searcy, Bruce McGill, John Gallagher Jr, and Caitlin Mehner.
The film is a most entertaining (though a bit lightweight) look at an historic chain of events, and it's right up there with a black cop infiltrating the Klan in Spike Lee's 2018 film BLACKkKlansman for believe-it-or-not points. In 1980, Studs Terkel conducted an interview with Mr. Ellis, and it's worth a read to gain a bit more insight into a man that truly changed his evil ways. The ending of this film leans heavily on the "feel-good" and "can't we all just get along" approach, and maybe that's not such a bad thing. The end credit sequence features some tremendous clips of the real Ms. Alexander (who died in 2016) and Mr. Ellis (who died in 2005), making it a bit easier to understand how the two opposites connected for the greater good.
A horrible, yet beautiful story.
richbclarke27 April 2021
I'm never surprised by Sam Rockwell; always a performance to admire, and this movie is no different. Taraji P. Henson is without doubt the star here and she plays her character beautifully. Both leads drew me in to their individual "story" and, knowing this was based on a true story, I found it both deeply upsetting and equally uplifting. A story that was very well told throughout and supported by a super cast that had me enthralled from the start. An aspect of humanity that is thoroughly abhorrent told by two sides simultaneously and told with a passion that can only be commended.
Good...not great
darkraven-559088 April 2019
Soo I enjoyed this film and I was really looking forward to it, but it left me wanting more. Taraji and Sam were both great and the supporting class was awesome but... I was drawn to this film not necessarily for another civil rights film, but to see the relationship between these two characters grow from overflowing discourse to compromise to friendship. I didn't see that. I saw a few side bar comments and one or two cross words but mostly this film showed a man struggling to let go of his anger and hatred for a race he really didn't understand under the cloud of civil rights and the blistering speeches of those around him albeit including Ann Atwater. I just felt that the friendship between these two Star-crossed souls played by two remarkable actors, would've been more entertaining to watch than just another civil rights film. But it was a good story it just wasn't the story I was expecting.
Keep these movies coming
garymathe-7617329 August 2019
The incredible skill and range of Henson and Rockwell (long one of my favorite actors) is on display here in a story that needed to be told on the world stage (although the book had been out for some twenty years). I'm no SJW, but I'm glad we are getting more of these movies with real life examples of people coming together, especially when their backgrounds and motivations are so well explained. If it helps even a single extremist to change their ways, it was well worth it. For the rest of us it is an apt reminder of how things were not long ago, how much work still remains to be done, and how it CAN be done. Bravo.
Two Thumbs Up
Armando-Baltimore13 April 2019
Incredible movie. If you consider yourself an American, this is a must see. There is so much rich history in the American culture that has not been part of main stream media until now. The script forces you to find empathy for each of the main characters, no matter what your background. This was a challenging role for Taraji, whereas the role of Ann Atwater could have been easily type cast for Octavia Spencer. Some of the bits that Sam Rockwell brought to the role of CP Ellis were almost comical, but well in-character. Unlike the Green Book which had several awesome moments, this movie was suspenseful and interesting from start to finish. I am looking forward to the next work directed by Robin Bissell.
Thought Provoking and Interesting
stevendbeard22 April 2019
Warning: Spoilers
I saw "The Best of Enemies", starring Taraji P. Henson-Empire_tv, Proud Mary; Sam Rockwell-Vice, Poltergeist_2015; Babou Ceesay-Into the Badlands_tv, Rogue One:A Star Wars Story and Bruce McGill-Rizzoli & Isles_tv, Animal House.
This movie is based on a true story about a civil rights battle in North Carolina in 1971. It was basically between Taraji, a civil rights activist, and Sam, a Cyclops in the Ku Klux Klan, but there were others involved, too. School integration was the hot topic of the day and after a fire destroys a black school, things get even hotter. Taraji spearheads a movement to integrate the children into the white school but Sam and his friends are totally against it. Bruce plays the local councilman that doesn't want change but tries to keep his beliefs hidden. He is more worried about votes. Babou is a problem solver from out of town that comes to try and settle things with a Charrette. I've never heard of a Charrette but from what I can gather, it is where people from both sides have discussions and try to work things out, verbally, without resorting to violence. During the end credits, you see the actual people and hear what happened to them.
It's rated "PG-13" for racial epithets, violence and some suggestive material and has a running time of 2 hours & 13 minutes.
It is thought provoking and an interesting story but I don't think I would buy it on DVD-once was enough. It would be a good rental, though.
He'll get used to it.
nogodnomasters8 May 2019
Warning: Spoilers
In 1971 C.P. Ellis (Sam Rockwell-ignore the pierced ear) was the president of the Klan in Durham, N.C. He blocked everything the black community was attempting to accomplish with the help of a white town council. Ann Atwater (Taraji P. Henson and not Octavia Spencer) is a leader of the black community struggling to survive. A school fire forces the issue of school integration on the community. Bill Riddick (Babou Ceesay) is called in to have a charrette, a form of arbitration, to decide the issue. People on the opposite side of the issue are forced together to come to a conclusion.
The word "Committee" is misspelled. Perhaps by design. In Augusta, Ga. the city council still says "edumacation" instead of education.
The film was well acted and the script was well written. I was confused (and still confused) as to why this had to happen. All schools were forced to integrate from the 1955 ruling so it was inevitable. A win for the segregationists would have just have been a delay. This was never mentioned. What is interesting is that the phrase "Know your enemy." The Klan admitted they knew nothing about black people. It was Ann's knowledge of C.P. Chase's family that gave her the upper hand. Heartwarming, inspirational, and timely.
Guide: No swearing, sex, or nudity.
The word "Committee" is misspelled. Perhaps by design. In Augusta, Ga. the city council still says "edumacation" instead of education.
The film was well acted and the script was well written. I was confused (and still confused) as to why this had to happen. All schools were forced to integrate from the 1955 ruling so it was inevitable. A win for the segregationists would have just have been a delay. This was never mentioned. What is interesting is that the phrase "Know your enemy." The Klan admitted they knew nothing about black people. It was Ann's knowledge of C.P. Chase's family that gave her the upper hand. Heartwarming, inspirational, and timely.
Guide: No swearing, sex, or nudity.
Fighting The Good Fight
damianphelps1 February 2023
The Best of Enemies is a movie, that on the surface, is about the integration of mixed cultures in school, but in reality is much more about people and change.
The film, cleverly in my opinion, stays away from cliched, cartoonish characters, choosing instead to have a more nuanced approach for its characters. It makes them people, with needs, concerns, beliefs and so on.
The result is an enjoyable film showing that with great courage, great things can be accomplished.
Any movie where you can be entertained and educated at the same time is always off to a good start in my opinion, recommended viewing :)
The film, cleverly in my opinion, stays away from cliched, cartoonish characters, choosing instead to have a more nuanced approach for its characters. It makes them people, with needs, concerns, beliefs and so on.
The result is an enjoyable film showing that with great courage, great things can be accomplished.
Any movie where you can be entertained and educated at the same time is always off to a good start in my opinion, recommended viewing :)
A Good Story, Unremarkable Film
truemythmedia23 July 2019
Once again I find myself in the undesirable position of reviewing a movie that I believe most people will really enjoy if they watch it but that I found pretty hum drum. There are flashes of great acting in the film and the story really is extremely inspiring. If it wasn't a true story the plot would sound like some overcooked Hollywood invention but it isn't.
Ann Atwater really was a loud, intrusive, and motivated woman who seldom took no for an answer and C.P. Ellis really was a racist bigot who organized KKK rallies and demonstrations. They really did become friends and changed the course of history and the town in Durham, North Carolina.
Unfortunately while I think I would love to hear and Episode of "This American Life" on the subject or a feature documentary on the story, this film does little to earn its existence as a film.
be 4.jpeg Cinematically, the film does nothing to tell the story in any other way than in the standard Hollywood Studio coverage with which they shoot every other movie. It seems that there are a host of film makers that think that film is primarily a means for delivering information. In this regard the film is competent. At the end of the film, you can tell the story of C.P. and Atwater though I doubt anyone who felt one way or the other would have had any change of mind throughout.
The film relies on the Racial Drama Genre's tropes and character archetypes with rarely a deviation. The acting though mostly competent is over acted in many scenes and the costuming/aging of Atwater (Taraji P. Henson, "Hidden Figures") simply looks terrible in several scenes. Why they couldn't have just gotten and overweight woman to play this role is beyond me.
I feel about this film the way I feel about many Christian films. It seems like they are made for choir. It seems like they are made without an eye for imagery, composition, connection through editing that make film what it is. To a large degree I could have closed my eyes and gotten as much out of this film just by listening to it as if I had watched it intently.
Ann Atwater really was a loud, intrusive, and motivated woman who seldom took no for an answer and C.P. Ellis really was a racist bigot who organized KKK rallies and demonstrations. They really did become friends and changed the course of history and the town in Durham, North Carolina.
Unfortunately while I think I would love to hear and Episode of "This American Life" on the subject or a feature documentary on the story, this film does little to earn its existence as a film.
be 4.jpeg Cinematically, the film does nothing to tell the story in any other way than in the standard Hollywood Studio coverage with which they shoot every other movie. It seems that there are a host of film makers that think that film is primarily a means for delivering information. In this regard the film is competent. At the end of the film, you can tell the story of C.P. and Atwater though I doubt anyone who felt one way or the other would have had any change of mind throughout.
The film relies on the Racial Drama Genre's tropes and character archetypes with rarely a deviation. The acting though mostly competent is over acted in many scenes and the costuming/aging of Atwater (Taraji P. Henson, "Hidden Figures") simply looks terrible in several scenes. Why they couldn't have just gotten and overweight woman to play this role is beyond me.
I feel about this film the way I feel about many Christian films. It seems like they are made for choir. It seems like they are made without an eye for imagery, composition, connection through editing that make film what it is. To a large degree I could have closed my eyes and gotten as much out of this film just by listening to it as if I had watched it intently.
School desegregation, 1971 Durham, N.C.
TxMike15 September 2019
My wife and I watched this movie at home on BluRay from our public library. The disc has some interesting "extras" including taped interviews of each of the two main characters in their later years.
This story is factual, about real people. It was an important chapter in the long road towards eliminating discrimination based on skin color, a journey far from being completed. It was 1971 in Durham, N.C. and even though laws had already been implemented to eliminate desegregation in schools the city officials and the KKK had thus far prevented it. When a fire at the all-black middle school caused a big problem the issue came to a head.
The two main characters, two people who initially despised each other, are Taraji P. Henson as black activist Ann Atwater and Sam Rockwell as local businessman and KKK leader C.P. Ellis. An interesting outfall of the events in 1971 was their becoming good friends for the rest of their lives.
The movie is uncomfortable most of the time, as it should be. This was a very serious time, but in the end it shows that hatred and prejudice is a result of fear and lack of understanding, usually on all sides.
A very well made and well acted story.
This story is factual, about real people. It was an important chapter in the long road towards eliminating discrimination based on skin color, a journey far from being completed. It was 1971 in Durham, N.C. and even though laws had already been implemented to eliminate desegregation in schools the city officials and the KKK had thus far prevented it. When a fire at the all-black middle school caused a big problem the issue came to a head.
The two main characters, two people who initially despised each other, are Taraji P. Henson as black activist Ann Atwater and Sam Rockwell as local businessman and KKK leader C.P. Ellis. An interesting outfall of the events in 1971 was their becoming good friends for the rest of their lives.
The movie is uncomfortable most of the time, as it should be. This was a very serious time, but in the end it shows that hatred and prejudice is a result of fear and lack of understanding, usually on all sides.
A very well made and well acted story.
Amazing Story About Belonging and Reviewing your Beliefs
rezza610 July 2021
Taraji P. Henson and Sam Rockwell are spectacular! The story, which I had not heard before, is phenomenal and it is told subtlety and carefully. The things these people did and how is a lesson to remember. It is never easy to fight for what we believe in and it is even more uncomfortable to change our minds about something. C. P. And Ann know that, yet, they continued to fight and help each other. Way to go!
Uplifting
veerle-3319229 April 2021
I was expecting something like hidden figures or the help. But it wasn't. Maybe because the story isn't told but showed. I disagree with previous reviews who say that the class struggle of Ellis or his struggle with the clan's hypocrisy is ignored. It isn't talked about but the outstanding performance of Rockwell doesn't need talk, with one look he says more than with a Shakespeare monologue. The setting created by Bissel speaks for itself too. Beautifull story that left me in tears of joy.
Great acting in a familiar frame that Hollyweird loves
trimblair13 April 2019
It is refreshing that Hollyweird has to go back 50 years for racism films. This is a 1960s KKK flick with great acting. Both the leads are outstanding and getting their inner struggle across to the audience. Rockwell is always stealing scenes. The Academy eats this stuff up so expect to see it up for best movie: black victim and white man is evil, black victim overcomes, lots of racism -- if they had a child with a disease or a gay dude it would have been a guaranteed winner: see GREEN BOOK, KKKlansman, 12 YEARS, etc.
Phenomenal Performances
deezoellick17 April 2019
In an age where stories that focus on racial tensions in the US tend to be either oversimplified and/or propogandistic, this truth-based story hits a grand slam home run. Henson and Rockwell both deserve Oscar nods for their electric performances, and the writing is spot on. My only issue with it would be that while the story really took its time to show Rockwell's character as a three dimensional human being with vulnerabilities, flaws (obviously), and attributes, it did not do this on the same level with Henson's character, who left me feeling like I barely got a glimpse of her life as a mother and activist. But all in all, well worth a few hours in a theater.
Based on a true story, which was a surprise to me, considering the extra ordinary events this story describes.
imseeg5 May 2020
The good: the story. This story sounded so unbelievable to me that I initially thought it was completely made up, but it is not. This movie actually portrays the true events of racist clan members coming together peacefully with the African American community in a small town to discuss and vote about issues of segregation.
Decent acting performances and beautiful photography are other good reasons to watch it. Any bad? Yes, this movie looses speed halfway and becomes a bit tedious. An half an hour could have easily been cut out of the middle part of this movie, but please be patient and keep watching (or skip a few minutes), because the final of this story is mind boggling surprising.
Decent acting performances and beautiful photography are other good reasons to watch it. Any bad? Yes, this movie looses speed halfway and becomes a bit tedious. An half an hour could have easily been cut out of the middle part of this movie, but please be patient and keep watching (or skip a few minutes), because the final of this story is mind boggling surprising.
Watching how two people can learn to understand and tolerate each other.
kas8238 April 2019
I will attempt not to have spoilers- but beware- I will be specific. I thought it would be hard to find sympathy for the head of a local group of the Klu Klux Klan, and yet, this film pulled it off. Not because I believe in beliefs and tactics of the KKK (as a liberal former Catholic woman with Jewish friends- oh, no, indeed). Rather because I gained an understanding of the mindset of poor working men in the South for whom seeing the true enemy (the powers in the community (white, male power brokers)) would have been dangerous. The acting in this film was superb with special kudos to Taraji P. Henson who in her wordless scenes expresses the reality of her character's history and the hardships she endures for a cause bigger than herself. I know this sounds like the film is didactic- but it isn't. It is a mini-history lession and one that I thoroughly enjoyed.
Way better than Greenbook.
subxerogravity18 April 2019
So the fact that this movie came out in April means its chances of getting nominated for an Oscar are slim, which is tragic. I feel like this story about two people from completely different worlds that hate each other coming together through communication (with a slight push), is more insightful than what Greenbook
Sam Rockwell gave a stellar performance in this movie. I think it's similar to what Ed Norton did in American History X so long ago.
I loved Teraiji P. Hensen in this one as well. What a great combo of actors going on here.
It's a very uplifting and heart warming story, but at the same time it's real. Does not feel like magic happen, only understanding.
This should be what the academy is looking at.
Real, heartwarming as well as heartbreaking ,!!!!'
debtbites22 June 2019
I watched this last night and was time warped back to my childhood
I started kindergarten in Texas in 1975 the first year of integrating in Tarrant County
I remember these conversations between the grown ups. I remember my mother taking heat for letting me go to that school.
I remember my dad saying I could be friends with "them" at school. But not being allowed to invite them over. I remember it seemed odd to me, having always been in "mixed" classes I saw nothing "different"
In third grade we got the first black principal
My mother said he was one of the godliest men she ever met,
Once my parents split it became a non issue
But the looks given in this movie, the conversations, the "them" and "their kind"
On both sides. It was very odd to be sent back to that time even if not in Durham
THE BEST & WORST OF HISTORY...!
masonfisk29 May 2019
The recent cinematic racial history lesson from a few weeks ago starring Oscar winner Sam Rockwell & Oscar nominee Taraji P. Henson. In the early 70's, a school fire forces a Southern community to consider integration so a committee is formed headed by a Grand Wizard of the Klan & a politically minded black woman to argue the pros & cons of this proposal. That we have the traditional battle between people from different corners of an issue only to come together at the end may be an old construct even in Homer's time but when done well, it works which this film does so w/o any extremes pushed one way or the other. The performances ultimately hold this sermon together w/strong support from Anne Heche, Bruce McGill & Wes Bentley but just covering an important moment in history does not make an important movie.
A bit long! But surprisingly touching at the end! Should watch it!
kwenchow7 July 2019
Warning: Spoilers
This film is about a black people "Ann" and a white people "C.P." getting vote of a school integration issue in 1971! Entire film is a bit long but still worth the time watching! At the beginning, Ann refuse to be the co-chairman of the charrette because she against C.P., she compromise after another black people "Howard" call C.P. as brother! Ann also helping C.P. autism son moving to another room at the hospital! On the voting day, when come to the crucial eight vote moment, C.P. decide to vote yes instead of no! Because C.P. saying the motto of the Klan he join is look out for each other! After this outcome, his gas station burn down by some white people who upset about the result! But because of his noble act, all the black people car flooding his gas station to fill gas! That's all! A quite good movie indeed!
useful
Kirpianuscus18 November 2020
More important than the real facts, remains the fine performances and the powerful message. It is more than a past page or portrait of steps of desagregation of schools, transformation of a man or just image of racial problems in 1971 and profound change of attitude, beginning of a friendship but, for our time, remains an useful warning. So, just useful.
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