Knights (1993) User Reviews

Mechanical film

[siderite · 6/10 · 24 July 2006]

For its genre, I guess this film was OK. Post apocalyptic Earth, lots of deserts, dirty people in rags, fighting, even blood sucking cyborgs. The only beef with it is that it seemed to be made in the 80's. I even imagined myself commenting on IMDb about how Kris Kistofferson and Lance Henriksen made movies before Alien and Terminator. It turned out that this movie was made afterwards.

I must define the notion of OK. I knew it was trash, therefore I expected things like bad picture editing to make the fights look cooler, obvious stunt men instead of the real actors and ridiculous fighting. I also expected to see cardboard characters in a movie without plot. The only surprise was that the fighting was half decent, as the female star (also a good looking one) is an actual kick boxer.

If you see this movie on TV, it might be worth a watch. It's not too bad, so you can't rent it to make fun of it too much. So it's a bad idea to rent or purchase it, basically :)

Good fight scenes

[mrudinec · 6/10 · 29 April 2021]

It is what it is, but the fight scenes are quite good. Enjoyable to watch.

Pray for me...

[floydster3 · 6/10 · 11 October 2008]

Maybe I enjoyed this film because I love movies where women kick butt, and in this film Kathy Long does so....over and over and over again. Maybe I enjoyed it because Lance Henriksen is one of my favorite actors and he is the villain here. Maybe I enjoyed it because I love cyborgs dominate humanity and humanity fights back movies. Whatever the reason, I did indeed enjoy it.

Now, don't get me wrong, this not Shawshank Redemption, but it is not meant to be. It IS a fast paced action/Sci-Fi flick with major female butt kicking dished out by the then womens world heavyweight full contact Kickboxing champion Kathy Long.

Unlike the previous reviewer, I say check this movie out and prepare for a laugh or two. And if you have any time left over - as the previous reviewer says - pray for me.

Knights: Another poor Cyborg tale

[Platypuschow · 3/10 · 8 November 2018]

Knights is the third movie in the bafflingly constructed Cyborg franchise which started with the Jean Claude Van Damme movie Cyborg (1989).

It tells the story of a girl who is trained to fight cyborgs who are intent on slaughtering countless humans in order to create an unstoppable army.

The girl in question is played by Kathy Long, for those unfamiliar she's more well known as a professional kick boxer and a stuntwoman than an actress. I guess you could say she was the 1990's Zoe Bell.

Full of high octane action (Mostly melee) this is another weak addition to the franchise which is insanely disjointed and I simply don't get it.

Starring industry veterans Lance Henriksen and Kris Kristofferson it's mediocre stuff and demonstrates that even the greats have blotches on their records. Henriksen inparticular is really quite awful here.

3 movies in, not impressed.

The Good:

Scott Paulin

Some okay choreography

The Bad:

Simply really generic stuff

Things I Learnt From This Movie:

Lance Henriksen has done some absolute stinkers

Not bad for an Albert Pyun film, but it's still an Albert Pyun film

[frankfob · 3/10 · 21 April 2002]

I tuned into this thing one night on a cable channel a few minutes after the credits ran, so I didn't know who had done it at first. The longer I saw it, the more I started thinking, "Jesus, this looks like an Albert Pyun flick." Wasn't quite sure, though, for two main reasons: the photography was quite good (and the Utah desert scenery was beautiful), and Scott Paulin gave an hilarious performance as Simon, a murderous cyborg, but with some style and a sense of humor. Paulin must have ad-libbed the many clever one-liners he shot out, because Albert Pyun hasn't written anything even remotely funny or coherent in his career. Unfortunately, Paulin doesn't have all that much screen time before he's gone, and the movie's the worse for it. Lance Henriksen, playing the evil head cyborg, growls his way through his part, as he's done in countless other movies like this. I don't know what the hell Kris Kristofferson is doing in this thing; maybe he wanted to see what the Utah desert looked like and get paid for it. He goes through the movie looking (and sounding) like he just woke up, and in fact spends most of the last half of the movie on his back in a tent. Kathy Long, the nominal hero, has a great body, is attractive, has a great body, fights extremely well, has a great body, and doesn't have an iota of acting talent, but that doesn't matter in a movie like this. This being an Albert Pyun film, it's full of the trademarks that we've all come to know and love: inane and idiotic dialog, choppy editing, and the impression that they lost a reel in the middle of the picture and figured, "Ah, nobody'll ever notice."

As bad as this movie is, however, it's a shade above most of Pyun's other efforts--this is "Citizen Kane" compared to his brain-numbing "Adrenaline: Feel the Rush", for example. The fights are pretty well done, if repetitive (after she knocks down eight or nine guys one after the other, you find yourself saying, "Alright already, go to something else"), and Long is very athletic (and, as a previous poster has noted, has a great derrière). It's not a good movie by any stretch of the imagination, but it's not anywhere near as incoherent and incompetent as Pyun's usual extravaganzas. You could do worse than rent this movie--not much worse, granted, but worse nonetheless.

Kathy Long has a very photogenic derrière

[storybandit · 3/10 · 21 January 2002]

Every once in a while I will rent an action/adventure film just as a way to relax and occupy my mind with nothing important. This is why I own a copy of Charlie's Angels (2000) - not a quality film, but it makes me laugh and allows me to unwind for a while. One of these days I will probably buy copies of The Princess Bride and a few Monty Python movies for much the same reason.

In any case, I rented this film because I wanted to be entertained without being challenged. For the most part, I got what I wanted. The plot was something along the lines of a poorly written Xena episode, and the Kathy Long's acting was very community theater (not bad for a professional kick boxer and amateur actress). There were a few high points on the part of the cyborgs. Somehow they managed to get some pretty good actors to play the bad guys - unfortunately, most of them die pretty darned quick.

Like most martial arts films, the further you get into the movie, the more emphasis there is on action, and the plot (which wasn't strong to begin with) deteriorates almost as quickly as the acting. However, the more Kathy Long fights, the more time the director devotes to her backside. By the end of the movie I was seriously considering watching it a second time just to count the number of times Kathy Long's tight red shorts were center screen.

Unfortunately, there just wasn't enough meat to this film to make satisfying curiosity worth seeing the film a second time. If you are a hard core Xena fan in need of something to wile away a few hours - by all means, go to the grocery store and spend the .50 cents on the rental. There are some strong similarities between the show and this movie.

Just don't expect anything more than to be mildly amused for a few hours.

Unless, of course, you happen to like Kathy Long's derrière. THEN you might want to purchase a copy.

It's a gem - if your a fan of Albert Pyun

[t_atzmueller · 7/10 · 18 October 2010]

There are two types of people on this planet: those who hate Albert Pyuns films, comparing the works to Ed Wood, and there are those who love master Pyuns style. If you are from the first category you need not bother reading any further – besides you're on the wrong page anyway.

If, however, you're a Pyun fan, it's likely that you are male, used to play with Masters of the Universe toys, used to believe that the Highlander was real, are an avid comic-book reader and enjoy your Heavy Metal loud and manly (Manowar, am I right or am I right?). Just like Albert Pyun.

To take the greatest pleasure in a Pyun film you have to drop all expectations of watching a 'real' movie. Get ready for a comic-book that has been transferred from paper to celluloid. Forget that there is a certain art called acting and revel in the pose, the pathos and the ham. Remember that no CGI could ever get close to plastic and handmade special-effects. Accept that a decapitation by lethal kung fu kick is more worth than deep and meaningful dialogue. Tell yourself that the 80ies were good and there is no beating epic-cheesy synthesizer-soundtracks. In other words: allow yourself to become a kid again for 90 minutes and worry not that your mom will give you s**t for watching violent movies or drinking beer.

The story of Knights is simple even by Pyun standards: once again the world is a wasteland where only rocks, hoodlums in rags and the occasional hero grow. Cyborgs – Robots with biblical names who suffer from vampirism – under the despotic rule of megalomaniac Job (Henrikensen) are now on top of the food-chain, herding the humans like cattle. Job, receives his commands from the mysterious 'Master Builder', who plans to attack Taos, the last enclave where humans can live in relative safety. Against them stands only the renegade cyborg Gabriel (Kristofferson) and young warrior(ess) Nea (Long), who is searching for her kidnapped brother.

Henriksen, equipped with a ridiculously huge mechanic arm that could have worked only under Pyuns direction, is hamming it up for all he's worth, showcasing his entire reservoir of barely controlled rage, growling, eye-rolling and drooling. Kathy Long is cute as a button and if during the late 90ties you've grown a little tired of Cynthia Rothrocks kung fu routine, Longs take-no-prisoners kickboxing was a real fresh breath of air. Kristofferson was little else to do but to smile benevolently while looking cool and wise at the same time – the rest of his work is cut out for him by his (obvious) stuntman. Scott Paulin gets to do what he can do best: sneer, look creepy and threatening and Gary Daniels is Gary Daniels. Only Vincent Klyn – the steel-eyed chief-baddie from "Cyborg" – is a little underused, having no more than a cameo.

It's always heartbreaking to watch comic geeks march into a superhero movie, only to see them leave the cinema two hours later, curses on their lips, bitterness in their eyes and a piece of their soul dead (exception to the rule, "The Dark Knight" and "Watchmen"). This never happens with Pyuns films. Not only because they don't show them in cinemas but rather because these little trash-gems are produced by people who believe in their work – made by fans for fans. (Deep down in my heart, I still believe that, had Pyun directed "Spider Man", it wouldn't have turned out to be a heart- and soulless piece of CGI-junk).

There is trash and there is "trash". Other directors like Michael Bay or the notorious Uwe Boll may be given huge budgets and an excellent cast; their 'talent' will invariably turn any effort into manure. Pyun on the other hand can turn manure into small but heart-felt trash-classic.

If I wasn't a Pyun fan, I'd give this movie nothing. As a fan, I give it 7 out of 10 stars (points being deducted for promising a sequel that never came and for simply not being as good as Pyuns 1989 movie "Cyborg", one of the three Van Damme films that didn't stink. On second thought, 1 point added for having a dismembered Kristofferson fight from within a rucksack).

Alternatively you could watch Ingmar Bergman's "The Seventh Seal" or Luchino Visconti's "Death in Venice", but that's another story.

Bad Movie! Bad Story! Bad Acting! Bad Investment.....

[kertevans · 1/10 · 14 March 2005]

This movie will promote the improvement of the mind. Read a book! It's incredible anyone would think this movie deserved the time and investment to make. I've seen "B" movies before but the "C" movie has just been invented. I didn't think I would ever enjoy Power Rangers since my kids stopped watching but I found myself looking for the videos fifteen minutes into "Knights." High school productions are better than this and the actors involved should erase this from their resume. Embarrassment is one of many descriptions that come to mind. My roommate, who loves these types of movies even turned it off. Now that has to really tell you something. If you watch this movie, and like it, I will pray for you.

I love movie Albert Pyun.

[Ewelina from Poland · 13 July 2001]

I think that "Knights" is a great film. Well...it has many shortcomings but I like films of Albert Pyun. That movie is just like a vision of future and I like it. I've been saw "Knights" hundred times. There is many cyborgs. One of them is Matthew I very like him. You know, the best thing of that movie is that Jon Epstein was on that movie. He's so ... funny.

How bad can it get?

[Buff2001 · 2/10 · 29 March 2003]

This move is about as bad as they come. I was, however forced to give it a 2 for the scenery. There are many great shots of the southwest including many in Monument Valley, one of the most breathtaking places in the US. It is also, starting with John Ford, one of the most filmed. In fact one scene with Kris and the girl was filmed on a place called John Ford point.

Can we get a sequel?!?

[jlskutt · 10/10 · 30 April 2002]

This was a great action movie. i've always been a Kathy Long fan anyways, but she kicked some major butt in this movie. The one thing I didn't like was the epic, must have a sequel, ending. A sequel that we will never see unfortunately.

Watch "Nemesis" instead.

[gridoon · 4/10 · 25 November 2001]

This is one of the two postapocalyptic fantasy movies that Albert Pyun made in 1993 - and it's the bad one. Apparently all his energy went into "Nemesis" which was an entertaining non-stop action movie, and had a much more expensive look. "Knights" is clunky and cheesy, a bottom-of-the-barrel sci-fi that too often resembles a video game (new opponents pop up all the time and must be exterminated as quickly as possible). The only thing that saves this movie from the trash can is Kathy Long; not a particularly attractive woman, but undeniably a brutally efficient fighting machine. As for Kris Kristofferson, considering his age at the time (58), I hope his stunt double was well paid. (*1/2)

My worst movie experience

[tliikamaa · 1/10 · 28 April 2002]

This movie is probably the worst I have seen. Bad acting, bad script, bad everything. Comparing it to mainly two other movies in the same genre and from approximately the same time is interesting. Both Cyborg (Van Damme, 1989) and Nemesis (Olivier Gruner, 1993) are much better and seems more robust in both story and directing and still it's Albert Pyun who has directed these two as well!

The story is not original. The world has become a terrible place, possibly due to an environmental disaster or a nuclear war, and people live under medieval circumstances. A special breed of robots (cyborgs) live on human blood and there's the story... The cyborgs need to get a lot of humans to fulfill there "prophecy" and the humans need someone to stop them. One girl together with a robot (Kris Kristofferson) built by the creator of the cyborgs has been appointed by destiny to save mankind.

In this movie the director tries some Hong-Kong stylish fighting scenes with the participants flying high and leaping far. The movie fails miserably in this attempt.

I recommend this film with the only reason that most people will get a new "worst ever" movie to relate to. And to fans of the genre I recommend "Cyborg" since I think it's a very underestimated movie with quite a high entertaining factor. And if you can't stand Van Damme then check out "Nemesis".

I rated this movie 1/10.

Check mate...

[fmarkland32 · 2/10 · 19 July 2006]

Vampire cyborgs rule the world and use the blood of humans as fuel, however there is going to be a shift of power thanks to a renegade android (Kris Kristofferson) and a warrior woman (Kathly Long) as they face off against Lance Henriksen and Gary Daniels (Who play the cyborgs in this ridiculous movie) Of all the questions left unanswered by this dreadful movie, the most poignant is Who's idea was it to cast country singer Kris Kristofferson as a cyborg warrior who is able to give as good as he gets. No, don't get me wrong I could see Kristofferson as a vigilante or something but not as a cyborg. Strangely one suspects that this was written for Dolph Lundgren, however Lundgren must have had the wisdom to not do it. However despite the disastrous casting, Kristofferson is easily the most enjoyable thing about the movie. He gives a performance far more human then the inexpressive Kathy Long. (And Kristofferson is playing a robot) despite the miscasting, Kristofferson provides the few moments of interest. Lance Henriksen is slumming and Gary Daniels is wasted but basically Knights is baffling failure. You stand back in horror wondering who the hell thought that this was even a good idea on paper. (This is a movie where a dismembered Kristofferson is fighting robots in a backpack) Worst of all it ends in a what if sequel, thankfully this has yet to materialize although I still have nightmares at the proposition of the likelihood of such an event.

* out of 4-(Bad)

"It makes sense, doesn't it? To kill us, you must be metal."

[lost-in-limbo · 4/10 · 30 May 2007]

Set in a post-apocalyptic environment, cyborgs led by warlord Job rein over the human population. They basically keep them as livestock, as they need fresh human blood to live off. Nea and her brother managed to survive one of their attacks when she was a kid, and years have past when she came face-to-face with the cyborgs again, but this time she's saved by the cyborg Gabriel, who was created to destroy all cyborgs. Job and his men are on their way to capture a largely populated city, while Nea (with revenge on mind) pleads Gabriel to train her in the way of killing cyborgs and she'll get him to Gabriel.

Cheap low-rent cyborg / post-apocalyptic foray by writer / director Albert Pyun (who made "Cyborg" prior to it and the blistering "Nemsis" the same year) is reasonably a misguided hunk of junk with some interesting novelties. Very little structure makes its way into the threadbare story, as the turgid script is weak, corny and overstated. The leaden banter tries to be witty, but it pretty much stinks and comes across being comical in the unintentional moments. Most of the occurring actions are pretty senseless and routine. The material could've used another polish up, as it was an inspired idea swallowed up by lazy inclusions, lack of a narrative and an almost jokey tone. The open-ended, cliffhanger conclusion is just too abrupt, especially since a sequel has yet to be made. Makes it feel like that that run out of money, and said "Time to pack up. Let's finish it off another day (or maybe in another decade). There's no rush." However it did find it rather diverting, thanks largely to its quick pace, some well-executed combat and George Mooradian's gliding cinematography that beautifully captured the visually arresting backdrop. Performances are fair. Kris Kristofferson's dry and steely persona works perfectly as Gabriel and a self-assured, psychically capable Kathy Long pulls off the stunts expertly and with aggression. However her acting is too wooden. A mugging Lance Henriksen gives a mouth-watering performance of pure ham, as the villainous cyborg leader Job who constantly having a saliva meltdown. Scott Paulin also drums up plenty of gleefulness as one of the cyborgs and Gary Daniels pouts about as one too. Pyun strikes up few exciting martial art set pieces, involving some flashy vigour and gratuitous slow-motion. Seeping into the background is a scorching, but mechanical sounding music score. The special effects and make-up FX stand up fine enough. Watchable, but not quite a success and it's minimal limitations can be a cause of that.

Breath-taking!

[enterthecass · 25 July 2001]

What a sensational movie. The script-writers obviously have really taken their time here. The plot is fantastic and the director deserves credit for keeping it together so well. The acting is sensational with a lively mix of both well executed humour and a theme which is so very important. It underlines a woman's place in society as being just as important as a man's. It also helps us realise just how important family values are. Lance and Kris have both shown how their talents demand more screen time. The film was so well rounded. Such a complex and engaging beginning combined with well developed middle and truly classic and memorable ending. Of course i approached the film thinking it would be slap-dash tripe but not at all. The many sets (the desert, the outback and the..eh...des..er.t) really caught the eye. The costumes were amazing too. The idea of replacing cars with horses in an age of cyborg's and robots was very eh.....original. But the thing is that Hollywood has been crying out for a kickboxer/robot team taking on evil, blood-sucking cyborgs theme. The movie's lack of success can only be explained by bad timing. The fight sequences are never repetative and the dubbing and editing are obviously the work of a master technician. The dialogue i believe was written by the script people from 'Howard's End'. The original tag-line for this film was 'Poetry in Motion.'Apparently a sequel was cosidered however the film's producers had the old 'Sundance and Butch Cassidy' problem of the first film being too final and not open-ended enough. Probably the film's only major flaw. May i also say that Darth Vader(Star Wars), The Joker(Batman), Mum-Rah(ThunderCats) and Roy Batty(Blade Runner) pale into significance to the ultimate BADDY - 'The Master Creator'. And though we never see it you could just tell that the brilliantly titled 'Cyborg City' would beat the hell out of the 'Death Star'. Hats Off. Pure Genius. Top class. First rate. Numero Uno. Ten out of Ten. Best of the Best. Made in Heaven. All time classic. My A**e. It was $h!t with a capital SSSSSSHHHHHHHEEEEEEEE!

Rock Em Sock Em Desert Robots

[refinedsugar · 2/10 · 11 October 2023]

'Knights' in many ways sums up director Albert Pyun's work. Likable actors picking up a paycheck. Decent cinematography in the middle of nowhere. It's also low budget moviemaking with delusions of grandeur. Like some deep ideas, heavy themes course thru the veins of this silly post apocalyptic cyborg fighting tale written by him.

Nea (pro kickboxer Kathy Long) parents get murdered by cyborgs led by Job (Lance Henriksen) when she's a young girl. She's tasked with protecting her baby brother, but 10 years later she's been separated from him and saved by a cyborg Gabriel (Kris Kristofferson) who's sole purpose is to destroy fellow cyborgs. He trains her to take them down and free humankind.

Human blood for fuel. Decent makeup effects, an obvious stunt double for Kristofferson & a bum ending. Henriksen wears this huge mechanical arm to set him apart. He sneers, drools, kisses a parrot and spouts crazy dialog. He's really giving it his all, but unfortunately he's stuck in a poor cheap film.

Sunday afternoon TV while hungover at best.

[nsnorman-1 · 3/10 · 5 September 2005]

You can't really go far when the initial story isn't all that great. The premise of cyborg's needing blood is just dopey.

The script is blasé'. The actors don't have much to work with. The sets were staged out in the desert to cut costs. It's a trademark that if the background is the desert, then the movie has no budget.

Lack of budget is okay, if there's a story. "Solarbabies" and "Blood of Champions" are examples of decent work from no $. but this movie looks as if they had to scrape their change together just to buy the cameraman a sandwich. Again, forgivable if only the story didn't just plain suck.

Finally, this movie commits the biggest crime of all: It doesn't finish! It simply ends as if it's a commercial break away from the rest of the movie. But the rest never comes. Just odd.

Just bad.

Mixed Fighting, Mixed Fighting, and more Mixed Fighting

[TD-11 · 9/10 · 9 October 1999]

Champion martial artist Kathy Long can fight like nobodies business. If you don't like mixed fighting, you will not like this film. There is virtually no plot, but simply a vehicle for Cathy Long to beat up and kill more men than anyone has ever killed in a movie. She is a fighting machine. There is no signature scene and the fighting is somewhat repetative. It doesn't match her masterpiece "The Stranger" for the quality of her fights, but the sheer quantity is unsurpassed.

The worst piece of crap I´ve ever seen

[niclaslillman · 1/10 · 8 February 2002]

Once in a while you get amazed over how BAD a film can be, and how in the world anybody could raise money to make this kind of crap. There is absolutely No talent included in this film - from a crappy script, to a crappy story to crappy acting. Amazing...

post apocalypse cyborg nonsense...

[cardinalbiggles2112 · 1/10 · 9 June 2009]

someone needed to make a car payment... this is truly awful... makes jean Claude's cyborg look like gone with the wind... this is an hour I wish I could sue to get back... luckily it produced severe somnolence... from which I fell asleep. how can actors of this caliber create this dog? I would rather spend the time watching algae grow on the side of a fish tank than partake of this wholly awful concoction of several genre. I now use the DVD as a coaster on my coffee table. $5.99 at walmart is far too much to spend on this movie... if you really have to have it, wait till they throw them out after they have carried them on the inventory for several years and are frustrated that they would not sell.

please for the love of god let this movie die of obscurity.

The Power of Trash Is Strong in That One

[Tweetienator · 5/10 · 2 April 2020]

Nice post-apocalyptic movie with a high trash factor and with Kris Kristofferson and Lance Henriksen even two solid and known actors, on top we get a girl as a destroyer of cyborgs with some vampiric notions. What more do you want? If you know how to enjoy such trashy gems like Red Sonja (Nielsen, Schwarzenegger, 1985) or Def-Con 4 (1985) put this one on your watchlist - what you get is something like Xena but in an atomic desert..

Plot Synopsis

[bpeck13 · 4/10 · 12 February 2009]

In the ravaged wasteland of the future, mankind is terrorized by Cyborgs—robots with human features—that have discovered a new source of fuel: human blood. Commanded by their vicious leader Jōb (Lance Henriksen), the Cyborgs prepare to overtake Taos, a densely populated human outpost.

Only one force can stop Jōb's death march—the Cyborg Gabriel (Kris Kristofferson), who is programmed to destroy Jōb and his army.

In the ruins of a ransacked village, Gabriel finds Nea (Kathy Long), a beautiful young woman whose parents were killed by Cyborgs ten years earlier. Now she wants revenge. They strike a pact: Gabriel will train Nea how to fight the Cyborgs and Nea will lead Gabriel to Taos.

Five-time kick-boxing champion Kathy Long has all the right moves in this high-speed adventure that delivers plenty of action. Also stars Gary Daniels (as David) and Scott Paulin (as Simon).

Not a movie...

[Aldrya Darmen · 1/10 · 24 November 2000]

Knights was just a beginning of a series, a pilot, one might say. The plot (I really shouldn't call it that, there wasn't any plot) wasn't logical at all and there were many mistakes, like [warning, I'm summarizing the plot]:

In the beginning of the movie someone said that there was only a couple of those cyborgs (the bad guys) but after the climax, Nea found out that there were many many more left of them. And it was told that cyborgs were hard to kill, but after a month's training, Nea could kill them with a single blow.

The movie was just pure kicking. I wasn't surprised at all, when I found out that the leading star was a kick boxer.

There was ONE positive thing in the whole movie: it really gave a great deal of laughter when watching it and talking about it with my friends. I recommend watching it, if you are in need of laughter.

So bad I had to find out what it was called!

[daijoki · 16 July 2001]

Saw this movie on a satellite Movie channel while drinking beer in Bali, didn't know what it was called but when me and my mate realised it had BOTH Lance Henriksen AND Kris Kristofferson I was a)Shocked and b)Too busy being shocked to realise quite how bad this movie was until long after it had finished! So shocked in fact that I made a note so that I could find out what on earth this thing was called so I could avoid it in the future! How could both Lance and Kris get involved in such a -err- crap movie... words fail me... although not as much as the scriptwriter from what we witnessed... Avoid at all costs - unless copious amounts of beer are had beforehand - and I mean COPIOUS!